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The irony of takfiring ahmadiyyas.

2017.03.04 16:37 MuslimForeva The irony of takfiring ahmadiyyas.

The irony of some people complaining about takfir
Extracted from a facebook thread, with some edits
Disclaimer 1: None of this justifies, endorses, or allows any persecution, mistreatment, or violation of humans rights of any ahmadi, nor does this justify discriminatory laws or other such injustices. Disagreeing with their beliefs and/or writing refutations on why we think they are wrong is not an endorsement of persecution at all. These things should be distinguished.
Disclaimer 2: It should be noted the average lay ahmadi is probably ignorant of the below statements and is not blatantly lying when they say they consider non-ahmadis as muslims, because this is not the modern position of their leaders. It is not a surprise if they are ignorant of this. But this exists on their own website and in english. But it would not surprise me if they are totally unaware of the early beliefs of their community. So don't blame them for not knowing about early beliefs that are not talked about. The 'current' position of the community is not the same as the earlier beliefs and these quotes shown below are not talked about or discussed.
Most of the screenshots have page numbers visible so looking them up should be easy.
NOTE: Some of the Imgur links have multiple screenshots in one link. Please open in a new tab to read them all.
ALSO: the pdf links to are to verify the sources are from the ahmadiyya's own website and not faked/manipulated (otherwise you don't need the pdfs). If someone want's to whine about 'out of context' or other nonsense, they have the source, so please explain the context if it has been manipulated.
The second leader ('caliph') of their community made clear takfir of all non ahmadis even those who were ignorant of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed:
This book that was quoted above can be seen on their own website:
His predecessor (this would be the first caliph of their community) when asked about the status of a non-ahmadi, gave this response (basically saying someone who disbelieves Mirza Ghulam Ahmed has committed a greater offence then one who disbelieves in Isa bin Maryam!):
PDF Source of screenshot:
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad himself seems to make takfir here:
Source is Page 87 (in PDF reader enter 99) of this pdf:
From another comment in the thread, we get even stronger statements of takfir if we look at untranslated urdu works:
The above screenshot is taken from here (if you enter page 21 in the pdf reader you'll get the same page as the screenshot):
The above urdu work was authored by another son of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed:
From some googling that urdu work was published in 1915 (might be wrong here though).
The same urdu book also contains gems like this:
“This objection shows the lack of knowledge of the objector. We find that the Promised Messiah has permitted us to have only that relationship with non-Ahmadis which the Holy Prophet Muhammad permitted with Christians.” (pg 169)
Urdu screenshot:
You can find it in the same urdu book linked above (enter 80 into the pdf reader).
Also it seems The second Caliph backtracked on his position in later writings (read the whole image not just the highlighted part).
The source is this academic work (not by an ahmadi obviously):
I believe it is in later writings of the second Caliph like these were we can see the 'revised' belief take hold and his old position get 'reinterpreted':
By reinterpret, I mean he stood by his older statement and did not say any of that was wrong, but he insisted "kafir does not mean non-muslim". Hilarious. He even used the word "outside the pale of Islam", LOL. How can you reinterpret that?
But regardless, the modern view (and the only one ahmadi laymen know about) is that sunnis are muslims, but they are not 'true muslims' (they are not rightly guided entirely) and that Ahmadiyya is the only 'true islam'.
Also, while the 'current' position their leaders espouse is that non-ahmadis are still Muslims, prayer behind a non ahmadi is still prohibited. Also, an Ahmadi boy is allowed to marry a sunni girl, but they won't let an ahmadi girl marry a sunni boy. Seems like a holdover from the old stance.
Another comment from the fb thread:
I actually think the earlier position of blanket takfir was logically more coherent then the current position that non ahmadis are still muslim.
"Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between - Those are the disbelievers, truly. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment." [Quran 4:150-151]
Ahmadis claim Mirza Ghulam Ahmed to be a messenger of Allah (they consider messenger and nabi to be synonymous so the traditional classification of 'every messenger is a nabi but not every nabi is a messenger' is rejected by them).
They also claim to believe in the Qur'an.
So how on earth can they hold someone who rejects a messenger to be anything other then a disbeliever when the Qur'an refers to such a person as a disbeliever? It results in blatant contradiction.
In light of the above, those people who are complaining about "If you are of the belief ahmadiyya community is not a muslim community, you are a takfeeri bigot!" are incredibly ironic. If takfir in general and all cases is bigotry, so is the above takfir of non-ahmadis.
Although when it comes to complaints about persecution, discrimination and violence towards ahmadis, I entirely agree that it is an injustice and empathize, as I said in my disclaimer.
Also please read article about takfir in sunni islam:
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2015.04.14 19:00 jdsmithson **WEEKLY VINYL RELEASES WEEK OF APRIL 14 2015**

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